L/TH/10/738 - Demolishing Part Of The Slipway And Building

[DJA]

this application should be rejected and the ship repair company look to take on the wind farm fleet for r&m
plus other small craft repairs like the river fleet coasters

[smeaton]

This application has been REFUSED

[craig]

I have been looking at the slipways since xmas when passing most days and I have only seen a few boats (4 or5) using the slipways. I understood that the slipways would be busy with 40 boats coming for the wind farms installations. I also dont see the 40 work boats in the harbour. I was hoping the asbestos building in front of the slipways could be improved as it is an eyesore at the moment, but with so few boats using the slipways it must be loosing money and therefore none for improvements.

Does anyone know what is happening as when I attended the lecture given by Mr. doug Brown I noticed on the plan for ramsgate the area around the slipways and surrounding area was designated for leisure. I would appreciate some comments from anyone in the know.
Thanks Craig

[AndrewM]

Response From Robert Holden

The area AROUND the slipways is indeed designated for leisure. The slipways are equally NOT designated for leisure use. The slipways themselves - by the nature of their usage need will from time to time have need of use. The fact they are there provides that availability of immediacy for use. The same is true elsewhere from small slipways to huge graving docks. Having that availability will we are sure be one of the reasons the windfarm and other companys came here in the first place. They do not have to be used! Their existence persuades operators to come here and their costs (during non use) covered by the very considerable revenues generated in harbour fees.

The fact the council in its wisdom has leased them off means the council receives that extra perceived money at the expense of the leaseholder. The council is in a win-win situation. We wonder what the leaseholders commercial risk assessment about this might have revealed - if they were businesslike enough to carry one out. In the meantime they - the leaseholders - have a responsibility and liability to discharge. which we fully expect and continue to rigourously insist they do.

In Ramsgate, with the wind farm vessels - as well as others too large for the travel lift - and remember in the winter months hard standing ashore served by the travel lift (capacity 40 tons only) is fully taken up - it is critically important to have slipway capacity available for immediate use. Their mere existence - if from time to time unused - gives comfort to those in the dangerous offshore wind industry that haul out access is available at short notice.

We are at this time awaiting reinstatement of the 100 tonne slips cradle demolished under the pretext of being unsafe. This is fine but it would come under longer term forward maintenance planning that cradles and other slip apparatus will have that planned maintenance according to the item itself - often running into years. So at present there is a gap in provision between the 50 tonne slip and the much larger 500 tonne Mortones Patent Slip.

The Ramsgate Society is continually monitoring the slipways situation.

[craig]

Thank you Robert for the info. However due to the delay in anyone answering my query I took it apon myself to go to the slipway office and speak to the owner of slipway 1.

He advised me that over the last year June 2010to June 2011, only 26 days was slipway 3 was used and most of the work was done by the owners of the boats. Resulting in a loss year on year. Slipway 2 is condemed and slipway 4 is unusable. The purchase of the 40 ton travel lift by the council over on the VW jetty killed the smaller slipway work and therefore the revenue. I understand that revenue from selling the lease for the slipways is needed to uplift slipway one to a 21st century standard. He also advise that all the future work anticipated can be carried out on slipway one. He also said that the wind farm companies were not prepared to pay a retainer to have the slipways available.

I beleive that the council does not have the money (because most of it goes to Margate) to run and maintain the slipways so it looks as if to me we will continue to have an eyesore with a dangerous asbestos building at the forefront of one of the best areas of the seafront, no jobs for local people as well as the eyesore putting off people from coming here to spend money in the town.

I believe that regeneration of the area will provide permanent jobs and vastly improve that area of the town. Especially with the Pleasurama site currently being developed.

[AndrewM]

Response from Robert Holden

Thanks for your observations. This is not an easy matter being one of Heritage conflict with overpowering modernism in architecture in an area where there is no modernism - just pure originality. Excepting of course the crass 'brick' of a toilet block.

[jboy441]

My thoughts are people need to work in the area if any attempt is to be made of successful regeneration, often job creation in Ramsgate due to new developments have been poorly represented in number & longevity. Ramsgate is a Royal harbour and has a marine heritage, this should not be sold off lightly, for yet another new development that could happen anywhere in any place.
There should be some maritime activity in the area, exhibiting old & new skills, every attempt should be made to help the redundant slipway serve some maritime industrial purpose, bringing in a skilled workforce that may be able to generate some real wealth for the area and sustain the town's long reputation for having a maritime involvement. Wealth does not gravitate down to local people re- developers, who usually build as cheaply as they can destroy the character of towns and cut & run with all the profits, leaving second-rate low grade structures.

Lose your historical assets and character, cut out productive commercial activity and see what little good this will do for the long-term economic future of the town, who wants to visit somewhere that is the same as everywhere else?


cheers


JH

[AndrewM]

What a lovely idea....... have you considered the economics?

1) Buy the Lease from the existing Leaseholder
2) Redevelop the area to remove Asbestos and other hazards
3) Find £500,000 to reinstate and repair slippage equipment
4) Employ tutors and staff
5) Wait with bated breath to see how many takers there are

FIND THE FUNDING AND LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN....

It is a fact that the Slipways (2,3 & 4) have been used for 30 days out of the last 450 at an average slippage charge of £100 per day. Revenue totalling less than £3500.

Rent & Rates alone are £27,000 per annum so how on earth do you see this being viable without a huge commitment of Public Funds?

The Ramsgate Society should properly engage with the Developers over the plans for the site. I regularly discuss the matter with them and they are happy to consider all suggestions. At the moment they are looking into the reinstatement of many features long ago lost such as the ornate railings around the entire pier yard.

Over time things DO change, I am sure that in the war the fisherman were not too impressed at having three new slipways 'Jerry-built' next to the main one. At that time there was a clear NEED for them. Unfortunately nowadays there is barely enough work for slipway 1 alone.

If anyone from the Society wants to discuss the site and the forthcoming heavily revised planning application I am sure the developers would appreciate the constructive input. Contact me on jondahms[*AT*]gmail.com (exchange the [*AT*] for @) and I will try to arrange something.

[Ramsgate Fan]

Thanks for the edit Andrew, wouldn't have crossed my mind...

[craig]

I have read the comments made by JBoy441 & Ramsgate Fan and would like toadd my comments and observations .

I think when all is said and done the slipways with the exception of the listed No1 slipway have had their day. They need substantial money to put them right. If money could be found they would not be a viable proposition anyway and would not generate money or jobs for the town. Therefore the area should in my opinion be redeveloped after carefull consideration that any development should be sympathetic to the area and it must generate jobs and money for the town. At the moment the area is an eyesore and does nothing to bring people to Ramsgate to enjoy the town and harbour.

Next door to the slipways is the clock Tower which itself is rapidly deteriorating and needs a lot of work. There is supposed to be a maritime museum. The museum has not been open for years and is not providing jobs or money for the town. English Heratige should make the current lease holder of the clock tower do something to preserve the building NOW. The council should make him do something to provide jobs or at least open the meuseum or take it off him to find someone who would do the repairs necessary and provide jobs and provide an amenity for people to enjoy.

This corner of our beautifull harbour needs re-generating badly and being negative to change is not going to help us in the future. Look at the regeneration of Folkstone harbour and see how vibrant a place it is, providing jobs and money for the local economy as well as a nice place to be now.

I believe we have a local developer who I am told is prepared to spend £2 million to redevelop the slipways into a commercial concern which will bring jobs and money into the town by bringing in 2 national chains of resturants. Something everyone can enjoy.

Some have suggested the Royal Victoria Pavillion as a place for a resturant. The problem there is, who wants to have coffe or eat in a building with no windows and a shabby interior, when they can sit out on a balcony or inside a new building and look out over our beautiful harbour.

Now JBoy441 says that developers build cheaply and cut and run leaving second rate low grade structures. Well that leads me to look at this developer.
1 He is local and his family all live in the town so he is not likely to cut and run.
2 The Ramsgate Society gave him an award last year for the redevelopment of the listed old customs house. So impressed were the town council they have leased the customs house for their prestige offices.
3 He has just finished rebuilding the listed old Marina Resturant further down the sea front where the georgian houses go into the cliffs. What a fantastic building it now is. I would be very surprised if the town council and the Ramsgate Society dont give him an award this year for the building.
I am confident this developer will provide a good building fit for purpose and we should grab his £2 million for the redevelopment. The Council does not have money for regeneration in these times of austerity.

I believe the problem began with the original futuristic building his architect suggested and put forward for planning. Now I believe the suggested building is in keeping with the area and 'Ramsgate Fan' advised he is prepared to replace the ornate railings which used to surround the area. This would certainly improve what is currently there.

Some Ramsgate Society members were against the project and 'Ramsgate Fan' suggests That members engage with the developer over plans for the site. Why allow this very important site to fester any longer when it can be a jewel in Ramsgates crown. We should bring our town assets up to date to generate jobs, people and income which help the town to prosper. Especially in light of the current economic down turn.